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	<title>Comments on: EPA Suppresses Report Disproving Global Warming</title>
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		<title>By: ideonexus</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11289</link>
		<dc:creator>ideonexus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11289</guid>
		<description>Mike B.

I started to play your game and track down the links to every one of the above scientific organization&#039;s statements on AGW, but found someone has already done the work for me:

http://logicalscience.com/consensus/consensusD1.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike B.</p>
<p>I started to play your game and track down the links to every one of the above scientific organization&#8217;s statements on AGW, but found someone has already done the work for me:</p>
<p><a href="http://logicalscience.com/consensus/consensusD1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://logicalscience.com/consensus/consensusD1.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: ideonexus</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11286</link>
		<dc:creator>ideonexus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11286</guid>
		<description>SPPI isn&#039;t a peer-reviewed journal. You might as well be referencing Rush Limbaugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPPI isn&#8217;t a peer-reviewed journal. You might as well be referencing Rush Limbaugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike B.</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11285</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11285</guid>
		<description>@ideonexus:
You still didn&#039;t list any links because they&#039;ve all been refuted by more recent and far more credible research.  And here we have the completely non-fictional MIT professor Richard Lindzen publishing a report that says that CO2-based Global Warming does not exist: http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Carbon-Dioxide-irrelevant-in-climate-debate-says-MIT-Scientist

Imagine that.

Nice try...your list of organizations is pretty cute though.  Unfortunately the truth wasn&#039;t one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ideonexus:<br />
You still didn&#8217;t list any links because they&#8217;ve all been refuted by more recent and far more credible research.  And here we have the completely non-fictional MIT professor Richard Lindzen publishing a report that says that CO2-based Global Warming does not exist: <a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Carbon-Dioxide-irrelevant-in-climate-debate-says-MIT-Scientist" rel="nofollow">http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Carbon-Dioxide-irrelevant-in-climate-debate-says-MIT-Scientist</a></p>
<p>Imagine that.</p>
<p>Nice try&#8230;your list of organizations is pretty cute though.  Unfortunately the truth wasn&#8217;t one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: ideonexus</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11187</link>
		<dc:creator>ideonexus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11187</guid>
		<description>Please see the G8, Brazil’s Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias, France’s Académie des Sciences, Italy’s Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Russia’s Academy of Sciences, the United State’s National Academy of Sciences, United States of America, the Royal Society of Canada, the Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, the Science Council of Japan, the Academy of Science of South Africa, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Indian National Science Academy, the Academia Mexicana de Ciencias, the Royal Society, United Kingdom, Malaysia’s Academy of Sciences, New Zealands, Academy Council of the Royal Society, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the Australian Academy of Sciences, the Woods Hole Research Center, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), the American Meteorological Society (AMS), the National Research Council, Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS), the Federal Climate Change Science Program, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the UN Project on Climate Variability and Predictability, the American Geophysical Union, the Geological Society of America, American Chemical Society, the American Association of State Climatologists, the US Geological Survey (USGS), the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS), the World Meteorological Organization, Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospherice Sciences, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Australian Meteorological And Oceanographic Society, the Pew Center on Climate Change, and 928 peer reviewed scientific journal papers.

Your signature list is pretty cute though and does include the fictional lawyer Perry Mason. Maybe you should get Scooby Doo to reveal that the Global Warming Monster is really just Al Gore in a costume trying to get rich off of alternative energies.

As for the name-calling. You guys are the ones who came up with the word &quot;Dittoheads&quot; to describe yourselves. Yes, I take advantage of the fact that it sounds like name calling when someone who isn&#039;t one says it, like &quot;Teabagger,&quot; but that&#039;s a problem you should take up with your PR experts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please see the G8, Brazil’s Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias, France’s Académie des Sciences, Italy’s Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Russia’s Academy of Sciences, the United State’s National Academy of Sciences, United States of America, the Royal Society of Canada, the Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, the Science Council of Japan, the Academy of Science of South Africa, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Indian National Science Academy, the Academia Mexicana de Ciencias, the Royal Society, United Kingdom, Malaysia’s Academy of Sciences, New Zealands, Academy Council of the Royal Society, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the Australian Academy of Sciences, the Woods Hole Research Center, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), the American Meteorological Society (AMS), the National Research Council, Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS), the Federal Climate Change Science Program, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the UN Project on Climate Variability and Predictability, the American Geophysical Union, the Geological Society of America, American Chemical Society, the American Association of State Climatologists, the US Geological Survey (USGS), the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS), the World Meteorological Organization, Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospherice Sciences, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Australian Meteorological And Oceanographic Society, the Pew Center on Climate Change, and 928 peer reviewed scientific journal papers.</p>
<p>Your signature list is pretty cute though and does include the fictional lawyer Perry Mason. Maybe you should get Scooby Doo to reveal that the Global Warming Monster is really just Al Gore in a costume trying to get rich off of alternative energies.</p>
<p>As for the name-calling. You guys are the ones who came up with the word &#8220;Dittoheads&#8221; to describe yourselves. Yes, I take advantage of the fact that it sounds like name calling when someone who isn&#8217;t one says it, like &#8220;Teabagger,&#8221; but that&#8217;s a problem you should take up with your PR experts.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Richey</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11185</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Richey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11185</guid>
		<description>If the best you can come up with to refute something is Wickipedia, I suggest you check with your college professor regarding the reliability of using an open source publication as a reference. 

Again, if you have a copy of the irrefutable science linking global warming or climate change with an increase in CO2, please publish it or tell me where I can get my hands on a copy of the science. You won&#039;t answer my question because you can&#039;t. 

You can&#039;t because there is no irrefutable science that proves this using the well accepted scientific method. 

When are you going to get your head out of the sand and realize this is the truth? Hopefully before you go over the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.

You seem to have to resort to name calling and putdowns to prove your point. Is there any particular reason why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the best you can come up with to refute something is Wickipedia, I suggest you check with your college professor regarding the reliability of using an open source publication as a reference. </p>
<p>Again, if you have a copy of the irrefutable science linking global warming or climate change with an increase in CO2, please publish it or tell me where I can get my hands on a copy of the science. You won&#8217;t answer my question because you can&#8217;t. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t because there is no irrefutable science that proves this using the well accepted scientific method. </p>
<p>When are you going to get your head out of the sand and realize this is the truth? Hopefully before you go over the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.</p>
<p>You seem to have to resort to name calling and putdowns to prove your point. Is there any particular reason why?</p>
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		<title>By: ideonexus</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11177</link>
		<dc:creator>ideonexus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11177</guid>
		<description>The Petition Project is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;well-documented joke&lt;/a&gt; that has long been discredited. As for the anecdotal evidence that taxes on products are passed along to the consumer, this completely disregards the economics 101 truth that corporations charge the maximum price consumers will pay without any consideration to costs except how to minimize them to maximize profits. Oil prices are set by the market, which is why gas prices didn&#039;t go down despite the oil industry receiving huge tax cuts. They didn&#039;t pass that tax cut onto consumers, they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11098458/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;put it into record profits&lt;/a&gt; instead.

As for scientific integrity, I have clearly shown that this report has none. It was an obvious sham meant to scam the American public into thinking there was some debate still going on about Anthropogenic Climate Change. When you stop behaving with such appalling dishonesty, you can sit at the adults&#039; table and be treated with respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Petition Project is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition" rel="nofollow">well-documented joke</a> that has long been discredited. As for the anecdotal evidence that taxes on products are passed along to the consumer, this completely disregards the economics 101 truth that corporations charge the maximum price consumers will pay without any consideration to costs except how to minimize them to maximize profits. Oil prices are set by the market, which is why gas prices didn&#8217;t go down despite the oil industry receiving huge tax cuts. They didn&#8217;t pass that tax cut onto consumers, they <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11098458/" rel="nofollow">put it into record profits</a> instead.</p>
<p>As for scientific integrity, I have clearly shown that this report has none. It was an obvious sham meant to scam the American public into thinking there was some debate still going on about Anthropogenic Climate Change. When you stop behaving with such appalling dishonesty, you can sit at the adults&#8217; table and be treated with respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Richey</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11176</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Richey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11176</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know how the comments went from the EPA suppression report to taxation, but what the heck.

 If taxes are not passed on to consumers by business (including B2B), how do you explain the increase in the cost of gasoline, diesel, heating oil, propane, etc over the last 50 years. When I was in High school in the 60&#039;s, gasoline was 25 cents a gallon. Since then and prior to the speculation of oil futures, nearly all the price increase is from state and federal taxes. 

Take a good look at tobacco. In 1965 I could buy a pack of cigarettes for a quarter. As little as 10 years ago they were still less than a buck. But since the increase in taxes and the tobacco settlement, they are now $5 to $7 a pack. 

What about beer, wine and liquor? What about the price of cars? Government regulations for safety and fuel mileage are taxes too. That is why the price of a car today is so astronomical.

Now to EPA suppression. I think we take the wrong approach when we try to address all the smoke and mirrors of the AGW crowd. First of all, Climate Change is real. There is no disputing that science. It has been going on since time began.There has been a warming trend until 2001 and since then we are cooling. Those are scientific facts. 

Another scientific fact is that carbon emissions are increasing. There is science to back that statement too. But there is NO SCIENCE that proves increases in CO2 caused the increase in temperature prior to 2001. 

If you have a copy of that science (not just scientific consensus) you would publish it. It has never been published because it does not exist.

All the AGW crowd can do is to try to assassinate the character of anyone who dares to challenge their theory. They cannot carry on a civil debate of the facts of the science.

How many scientists does it take to prove the debate is not over? More than 30,000 scientists have signed The Petition Project. More than 9,000 of them have PhDs (not that that proves anything about carbon, but it does prove something about the myth of “consensus”). 

The petition’s wording is unequivocal:
“There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon
dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments
of the Earth.”
Source: www.petitionproject.org

The Petition Project is funded by donations from
individuals and run by volunteers. It receives
no money from industry or companies. Source: http://www.heartland.org/books/PDFs/SkepticsHandbook.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know how the comments went from the EPA suppression report to taxation, but what the heck.</p>
<p> If taxes are not passed on to consumers by business (including B2B), how do you explain the increase in the cost of gasoline, diesel, heating oil, propane, etc over the last 50 years. When I was in High school in the 60&#8242;s, gasoline was 25 cents a gallon. Since then and prior to the speculation of oil futures, nearly all the price increase is from state and federal taxes. </p>
<p>Take a good look at tobacco. In 1965 I could buy a pack of cigarettes for a quarter. As little as 10 years ago they were still less than a buck. But since the increase in taxes and the tobacco settlement, they are now $5 to $7 a pack. </p>
<p>What about beer, wine and liquor? What about the price of cars? Government regulations for safety and fuel mileage are taxes too. That is why the price of a car today is so astronomical.</p>
<p>Now to EPA suppression. I think we take the wrong approach when we try to address all the smoke and mirrors of the AGW crowd. First of all, Climate Change is real. There is no disputing that science. It has been going on since time began.There has been a warming trend until 2001 and since then we are cooling. Those are scientific facts. </p>
<p>Another scientific fact is that carbon emissions are increasing. There is science to back that statement too. But there is NO SCIENCE that proves increases in CO2 caused the increase in temperature prior to 2001. </p>
<p>If you have a copy of that science (not just scientific consensus) you would publish it. It has never been published because it does not exist.</p>
<p>All the AGW crowd can do is to try to assassinate the character of anyone who dares to challenge their theory. They cannot carry on a civil debate of the facts of the science.</p>
<p>How many scientists does it take to prove the debate is not over? More than 30,000 scientists have signed The Petition Project. More than 9,000 of them have PhDs (not that that proves anything about carbon, but it does prove something about the myth of “consensus”). </p>
<p>The petition’s wording is unequivocal:<br />
“There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon<br />
dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments<br />
of the Earth.”<br />
Source: <a href="http://www.petitionproject.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.petitionproject.org</a></p>
<p>The Petition Project is funded by donations from<br />
individuals and run by volunteers. It receives<br />
no money from industry or companies. Source: <a href="http://www.heartland.org/books/PDFs/SkepticsHandbook.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.heartland.org/books/PDFs/SkepticsHandbook.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: chriggy</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11174</link>
		<dc:creator>chriggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11174</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d argue that quite a bit of taxes are passed on to the consumer. Eventually, somewhere along the supply line, there is a final product or service that is sold to a consumer. So business A passes increased cost due to taxes on to business B, who passes those plus their own down to business B, etc. till there&#039;s a consumer. Otherwise, we&#039;d have a perpetual motion money machine. The laws of thermodynamics apply even in economy.

It may not be obvious, but let&#039;s say Web hosting company A charges company B which is maintaining and therefore charging for, an internal website for company C which the public never sees. Company C makes a product though. You can be sure costs are being passed on from A to B to C, and being incorporated in the cost of the product sold from company C. And if the final consumer of product C winds up being the federal government, guess who ponies up? Yup, the taxpayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d argue that quite a bit of taxes are passed on to the consumer. Eventually, somewhere along the supply line, there is a final product or service that is sold to a consumer. So business A passes increased cost due to taxes on to business B, who passes those plus their own down to business B, etc. till there&#8217;s a consumer. Otherwise, we&#8217;d have a perpetual motion money machine. The laws of thermodynamics apply even in economy.</p>
<p>It may not be obvious, but let&#8217;s say Web hosting company A charges company B which is maintaining and therefore charging for, an internal website for company C which the public never sees. Company C makes a product though. You can be sure costs are being passed on from A to B to C, and being incorporated in the cost of the product sold from company C. And if the final consumer of product C winds up being the federal government, guess who ponies up? Yup, the taxpayer.</p>
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		<title>By: ClintJCL</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11173</link>
		<dc:creator>ClintJCL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11173</guid>
		<description>Reaganite Republican -- you fail to account for the fact that a great deal -- possibly even a majority -- of business is B2B ... Business to business.  If a business never interfaces with customers directly, how much of those taxes are really passed on to the customer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reaganite Republican &#8212; you fail to account for the fact that a great deal &#8212; possibly even a majority &#8212; of business is B2B &#8230; Business to business.  If a business never interfaces with customers directly, how much of those taxes are really passed on to the customer?</p>
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		<title>By: Reaganite Republican</title>
		<link>http://ideonexus.com/2009/06/29/epa-suppresses-report-disproving-global-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-11172</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaganite Republican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ideonexus.com/?p=4185#comment-11172</guid>
		<description>Obama claimed that the average American would not bear the brunt of this historic tax-increase... claiming  instead that “It is paid for by the polluters who currently emit dangerous carbon emissions.”

Just compare this outrageous falsehood to Ronald Reagans’ timeless wisdom:

“The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us.

…Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business.”

And after the way the rammed this through the House with little debate, without legislators even reading it… and while quarantining the GOP from any meaningful input whatsoever, any foolhardy individuals who still believe Obama’s threadbare “bipartisanship” spiel ought to have their head examined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama claimed that the average American would not bear the brunt of this historic tax-increase&#8230; claiming  instead that “It is paid for by the polluters who currently emit dangerous carbon emissions.”</p>
<p>Just compare this outrageous falsehood to Ronald Reagans’ timeless wisdom:</p>
<p>“The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us.</p>
<p>…Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business.”</p>
<p>And after the way the rammed this through the House with little debate, without legislators even reading it… and while quarantining the GOP from any meaningful input whatsoever, any foolhardy individuals who still believe Obama’s threadbare “bipartisanship” spiel ought to have their head examined.</p>
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